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Twisting Nether - Horde
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 Post subject: Re: Karazhan Strat Refinements
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:19 pm 
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Megatron

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:17 pm
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Class: Warlock
Profession: Alchemy
Profession: Tailoring
That strategy is pretty much the arrangement I have set up. We used to even have raid symbols up on people in the raid to serve as waypoints, but I was told it was simply too difficult to see the raid markers when tanking. Hence the "intervene" to reposition tip I posted a post or two back.

But yea, the positioning depicted above is spot on (I actually have a very similar diagram on my "day 1 of prince" notes), I always relay verbal commands over vent on where to move, typically from the tank's POV and almost always on an "if-this-happens-do-this" basis. I've seen too many Prince catastrophes in other raids where three people just yell "MOVE!" and the tank has no clue where to move, because quite frankly, Prince is pretty fat. Idealy, you want as many avenues of escape as possible, so positioning in the center is always best, and then if you start to see potential boxes form, you want to choose the formation that has the earliest infernal (it will despawn in time).

If you're in my parties, you should always see a moon over my head indicating 40 yard ranges. Mind flay from a SP is also around 29 yards, if you need another signature.

The best way to gauge distances is not by sight, but rather by the distance of your spells. Your actionbars (I dunno if this is by default anymore, I use a mod) should color your spells red if you're out of range, so just edge up until your longest ranged spell unlocks, and that should be max range.

Frequent wipes don't occur on Prince due to "unlucky" infernals, but more towards not enough advance planning when they come down; I mean, you can have some bad infernal placements, but I don't think in any of the last four downings I've been on, it wasn't anything a reposition didn't solve. You can always count on at least one massive repositioning during a Prince attempt ("Move alllll the way to the right") and healing simply has to cover for it. Phase 3 will always be rocky, since the infernals fall so fast, it's more or less the blow him away phase.

I intend to compile all of this in the standard strat post I mentioned above, sounds like there might be a disconnect between the various raid strategies being used.

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 Post subject: Re: Karazhan Strat Refinements
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:45 pm 
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Megatron

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:17 pm
Posts: 609
Class: Warlock
Profession: Alchemy
Profession: Tailoring
Curator

DPS should be high enough now that the clump up strategy on Curator should be unnecessary. Starting seperating the groups to minimize the AoE damage as we switch to more 2-main healer orientented raids; especially without priests for group healing.

Also, should start dropping the final add before going in for the curator as well; DPS should be high enough the adds are getting blown away in 2-3 seconds.

If the dps is not there, use the old clump strategy.

Prince

Seriously, stop dying on enfeebles please. If you turn purple, get out; sprint and cloak of shadows are nice for this. Note you can cloak through a shadow nova if you really get desperate.

Save all DPS cooldowns for phase 3, again this is the burn moment. It is NOT phase 2. Phase 2 is a healing intensive moment; not a true DPS race (although it should ramp up a bit, in comparison to phase 1). If you're running out of mana in phase 3 as ranged dps, then you need to conserve more mana in phase 1.

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"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better." -- Sydney J. Harris


 
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 Post subject: Re: Karazhan Strat Refinements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Executioner

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:14 am
Posts: 63
Location: Colorado
Class: Mage
Profession: Tailoring
Profession: Mining
Netherspite -
I would like to see us identify a backup for each beam before the fight begins (at least the green and blue ones). I've been involved in wipes caused because one of the 'beam obsorbers" was killed 30 secs in and we wen't able to pick it up on the fly and in cases where beam obsorber 2 accidentaly picks up the beam first, beam obsorber 1 then grabs it from him and both end up with a cool down for the second rotation.

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 Post subject: Re: Karazhan Strat Refinements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:08 pm 
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Executioner

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:11 am
Posts: 162
Location: Long Island, New York
Class: Warrior
Profession: Blacksmithing
Profession: Mining
Netherspite
I don't see a reason for people to position themselves right as the fight starts. I think it would be best if the raid stays at the door and when the beams come up the beam "tanks" can go to their respective colors and then the raid can go into their positions. Although changing colors every phase, beams always spawn in the same spot. So I'd say, when Netherspite banishes himself, everyone needs to not stand where the beams spawn for the next phase. Standing in between them should work nicely, I think. Then when the beams are up the designated beam "tanks" can go to their assigned colors without having to worry about someone else tanking the wrong beam.

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 Post subject: Re: Karazhan Strat Refinements
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:25 am 
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Initiate

Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:01 am
Posts: 28
Location: Austin, TX
Class: Paladin
Profession: Jewelcrafting
Profession: Mining
Netherspite:
I've snagged someone else's beam once or twice myself and need to work on that some. I think everyone started right as a hold over from when door visibility was a problem. It did seem that we were on the right side of the room for most of that encounter which made the beam angles a little awkward but also seemed to keep people more reliably in healing range as it controlled the knock back distance on three or four people. Moving him after the initial encounter seems like it will be difficult, as you could only drag him toward the source of the red beam in a given phase.

Healing range was much less of a problem last night, I've started standing nearly in melee range during the beam phases and out 10-15 units during the banish phase. Everyone seems trained to close with Netherspite after a knock back now and they pull within range of a healer fairly quickly.

Nightbane:
We were having some problems with ~2-2.5 second deaths during the flying phase. I'm not certain of whats causing the burst damage but its either the orange raining breath attack or the out-of-range move. In previous encounters, I don't remember the orange raining breath moving from the initial location, but I definitely saw it move back into the raid group dealing with the skeletons. Most of the damage could have been healed through but the global cooldown on cleanse and dispel seemed to be a problem. Putting a single person on cleanse/dispel during the flying phase would probably give the other healers time to keep someone up through the burst damage.

I think its worthwhile for all healers to use WoTF/PvP trinkets to break fear. The odds of Cador getting feared and Nightbane pealing off to kill a non-feared healer are much less than that of Cador getting cleaved and bursted down while we're running around for four seconds. I've previously used the trinket and divine shield to break fear, a trinket rotation with other healers would be better for paladins as we could save our divine shield if we get bursted during the flying phase. One healer should be plenty to keep Cador up for four seconds. If Cador is feared and peals off onto a paladin, then he will still hopefully have divine shield available.

Illhoof:
There is no way one non-AE DPS is going to keep the imps down. If two are put on the imps and a DPS gets chained, the chains will not die fast enough. The warlock seed-of-corruption thing defiantly works and warlocks are plentiful enough to where it should probably be a preferred method. If warlocks are unavailable, then we could try clearing the imps in phases.

DPS on the imp helper -> DPS on Illhoof while he is weakend, DPS kills imps until they're dead or until the helper spawns -> DPS moves to chains whenever they spawn then back to their previous task.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Karazhan Strat Refinements
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:13 am 
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Megatron

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:17 pm
Posts: 609
Class: Warlock
Profession: Alchemy
Profession: Tailoring
No need to setup a pre-assigned rotation on backup beams, since your backup may very well be on the other side of the room when the beams spawn and won't make it quite in time (this is huge on the healing beam, it need to be tanked). If someone isn't tanking a beam because someone died, then whoever is closest just needs to step up and take the beam, and then coordinate with someone to take it over past 25 stacks, and coordinate new tanks during the banish stage in preparation for the next cycle. This shouldn't be a big deal, it takes a lot of effort to die on Netherspite these days if you're using the correct strategy, since they nerfed the breath attack into the ground.

Oh, while I'm on the topic of Netherspite -- only warlocks and potentially shadow priests can tank the blue beam for the entire duration. Any other DPS'er needs to be in there at a max of 25 stacks and then rotate out. Also, ranged DPS'ers should never cross into melee range with Netherspite -- this is an excellent way to get melee'ed for 10k.

Illhoof: A geared dps warrior can handle all the imps, with sweeping strikes, whirlwind, and victory rush. Unfortunately, we have none! The only alternative is a mage tanking the imps, and in this case, it's basically down ranked AoE spam to catch all the imp aggro, and then periodically, set off a bomb and clear the room.

Warlocks will always be the preferred method, I was just being adventurous =)

Quote:

DPS on the imp helper -> DPS on Illhoof while he is weakend, DPS kills imps until they're dead or until the helper spawns -> DPS moves to chains whenever they spawn then back to their previous task.


Yea, this is the new Illhoof strat that I posted in guildchat and still haven't posted here =)

The change is as a result of the weaken timer being changed in one of the later patches, so throwing the imp down is worthwhile now.

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